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In recent discussions with some USAFA cadets, Ive encountered several who actually turned down pilot slots because of that 10-year ADSC. Full disclosure, I was a street to seat Warrant that served for 24 years. With survey data in hand, the Army will likely find that it needs to continue to invest in its aircraft fleet to ensure pilots receive adequate flight hours to remain proficient. Must be a volunteer just like airborne. Within the company we tried to level out flight time to give the senior guys some rest, but the battalion/brigade leadership was too risk averse and pushed back. Additionally, Cadets awarded Aviation Branch cannot participate in the Post of Choice program due to the inability to project requirements beyond flight school. I dont think I wouldve taken the 10 Year ADSO, considering that Id just now be ALMOST complete with 10 yrs aviation service. Hah oh good catch. A regular Active Duty pilot career path. The rest are grandfathered in. I was just curious if the numbers are stillsimilar. Question for the Salty Dogs: 10 Year ADSO : Armyaviation - reddit Hed still have to go through steps 2-5 from the Active Duty pilot career path above! Fiscal Yr 2021 starts Oct 1, 2020. Actually, the option to revert to Warrant Officer does exist. So the recruitment piece has not historically been our challenge, it has been capacity and production. But what if the new ADSO invalidates this assumption? Were you planning on doing it for less than 10 years?, His answer was, Of course not. What I would propose is to change the flight school is conducted to make it cheaper and make it easier to increase throughput. (Well assume a move to the Guard or Reserve after completing your initial 10-year UPT ADSC. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) Warrant Officer Candidate School is a five-week program. Stan is likely to do plenty of TDYs as an engineer and isnt impervious to the threat of deployment. If youre worried about frequent moves disrupting your family life, picking a community with few basing locations is a viable option for Active Duty. Well look at three cases: Although each of these career paths has potential for almost infinite variation, this diagram represents likely versions of each: Looking at these side by side, its clear why #1 is the Ultimate option. for a discussion of these options and their advantages.) Id always wanted to be a pilot and didnt know anything else, so I said the Doolie equivalent of Shut up and take my money! (There was a lot more Sir and Maam involved.) However, on the surface, we see that Stans plan is likely to get a pilot to the airlines a couple of years before his peers. Also, it ap-plies to the Regular Army and Reserve Component officers (Army National Guard and U.S. Army Reserve) ordered into aviation service by the Secretary of the Army and applies to all commissioned and warrant officers who are training for or have Army aeronautical ratings. Expect to get yelled at for shit you have no control over. PDF Rotc Branch for Active Duty Service Obligation (Adso) Contract In the last decade, retention has always been a hot-button issue. pay, allowances, benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the Instead, the aviation branch has proposed to boost aviation career incentive pay, or flight pay, which can retain more qualified aviators, he said. They think this is going to solve the shortage. That will solve our retention problem!" They might be stuck on Active Duty slightly longer than Stan, but hed have to spend at least a couple of years at a regional airline to even start competing for major airline jobs. Weve seen, If youre headed to pilot training, you absolutely must read our 3-part series on Winning UPT. As several others have said, this policy fails to address the root problems high OPTEMPO, poor quality of life, irrelevant mandatory training, etc. . Their workload is increased several fold versus the units that they are supporting. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. The BRADSO and PADSO portions of CSP remain in effect. Over the last few years, Army senior leaders took steps to address the pilot retention challenge. We are always either training or deploying. Often times these decisions being made do more harm than good, and cause a tremendous amount of work (just look at our administrative packet processes). What a joke. Just to end it and walk away.. victorious..? Press J to jump to the feed. This is anecdotal, of course, but nowadays there is no appreciable down time. Some of the impacts may have directly affected [Soldiers] ability to pursue [their] goals of working for the commercial sector, especially the airlines.. A chief warrant officer 3 with eight years of service earns $5093.70 per month, whereas a captain with eight years of service earns $6435.00 per month, a difference of $1,341.30 in favor of non-Army pilots. Im would bank on that being the flight school start date officially. How is my list for OCS? : r/army - Reddit So 6 years from ALE graduation day? So Army. My ORB says a date 6 years from my AD start date, which Im pretty sure is wrong. The report included a figure showing that the Army faced a shortfall of 330 warrant officerswho comprise 70 percent of the Armys pilot ranks. Heres some humor about the topic too https://thefrontlines.com/comics/army-pilots-beware/. It's almost as though he completely and totally ignored the concept of morale and esprit de corps. While a longer ADSO may help from looking solely at the numbers, it won't be effective at retaining quality talent. The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. Even just a year or two of delay erases any possible advantages of this career path. Can you imagine thesmile on more than a few faces of the last graduating class in Fy 2020 in September. The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. arent bad, and patriotism also factors in for most of us. If ATPs are granted, I'll be the first one to sign up as a warrant officer. No one knows somehow, my S1 doesnt know either. b. This means a steady paycheck and decent home life, except that as the newest pilot in the unit Stan is at the top of the list to deploy if the squadron gets sent downrange. Aviation has always been a highly desirable branch, and gaining a slot has been a matter of performance or differentiation from peers (whether OML or via a competitive application process). What is everyone's take on the new ADSO for aviation? I'm retiring in two years and it's not even to go to the airlines! However, if you missed that boat youre far better off taking an Active Duty UPT slot than trying Stans way and doing 5 years as in a non-flying job. From this mid-grade officer's perspective this constant obsession with readiness is actually detrimental to readiness. You can post now and register later. It just seems like a bait and switch to have me sign a conditional release and paperwork that says 6 years and then say, oh by the way we meant 10. First, as we just mentioned, you only have to worry about one job flying one aircraft for Uncle Sam. The Graduate School Option (GRADSO) portion of the CSP program continues to be suspended since YG2014 pending officer corps reshaping efforts. While I really want to be an aviator, the thought of being TOTALLY LOCKED IN until I'm 34 is terrifying. Our nation needs brave men and women willing to use Air Power to murder our enemies and break their shit. I'm thinking Army will start pushing dates to the right as much as possible to achieve its newfound maximum retention. I don't want to mess with my retirement, but would love a chance to fly for my country. If you accept tuition assistance, 2 year ADSO. I ended up discovering that Stan was most worried about frequent moves and long deployments stressing his family during an Active Duty flying career. On this career path, Stan is most likely to leave young kids at home with his spouse while he deploys. Why or why not? As long as hes getting a lot of flight time, Stan should have enough hours for a Restricted ATP rating and a shot at a regional airline job a couple of years before his Active Duty pilot peers. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. Furthermore, for cadets who may want to pursue a civilian career after a stint in the Army, the opportunity costs are higher the longer they stay. The Armys blind spot with retention data is further highlighted by comments made by Brig. If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. As long as hes getting a lot of flight time, Stan should have enough hours for a, When discussing any big-picture career options, I always make sure to follow Simon Sineks advice and, For anyone facing a 10-year military pilot ADSC/O, this means asking yourself: What is it about, For most, Top Gun played at least a little bit of a role. Army Publishing Directorate - Details Page Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. The best pilots I have served with were prior NCOs. This is the amount of time that an officer must serve on active duty. Yes, that is 11 combat stripes. And yet, theres a certain logic to questioning that 10-year commitment. Just so we know I'm not a whiny do nothing: seven deployments, six combat for a total of 70 months and 66 months respectively. Hopefully it is dependent on start date and not graduation date. Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the Aviation Branch allocation for ROTC and West Point can receive the Graduate School Option. C-17 formation from the ramp: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6100141/c-17-air-drop. The disparity grows as pilots continue service, with a difference of $1,560.80 per month in favor of a major with fourteen years of service compared to a chief warrant officer 4 with fourteen years of service. The views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Department of Defense. Officer Active Duty Service Obligation (ADSO) Guide Armed Forces REGARDLESS of the provisions of this enlistment/ I bet less than 400 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis. I have done more CTC rotations and in general "useless bs" since being aviation than I ever did infantry. This eventually allows you to retire a full four years earlier than any other military aviator. Other branches have had 10 year ADSOs for a long time. The new policy doesnt include Soldiers currently in training, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 William S. Kearns, aviation and officer policy integrator for the Armys G-1 office. More than likely, the aviations slots will be filled by personnel lower on the OML. "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. Army, Coast Guard . Exit surveys are important, but those only capture the opinion of those whom the Army has already lost. I would never have signed a 10 year ADSO for army aviation. Well also see some advantages of Active Duty and some options for cutting your time there short. Were you part of the 6 year or 10 year ADSO group? You'll be a WO for three-ish years. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. PDF Selection of Army Aviation Officers and Warrant Officers His deployment vulnerability continues for even a couple of years after his seasoning orders are over. Anyway, I just clocked 20 years, 5 1/2 years of that has been spent in the Middle East and for what? It explains how to perform well in your training, I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a. is to get hired directly by a Guard or Reserve unit and let them send you to UPT. Warrant Officers | goarmy.com 10 is nuts. | Army Organic Industrial Base Modernization Implementation Plan, Army Civil Works announces publication of a formal review for Nationwide Permit 12, Army Extends Timeline for Postpartum Soldiers to Meet Body Fat Standards, U.S. Army updates promotion and retention policies in response to COVID-19. Does anyone know the current selection breakdown of street to seat vs prior service? Yes, most of us eventually plan to move on to the airlines. These could range from 6 months to two years, depending on the type of aircraft hes flying. 9 month rotations are followed by field time, followed by gunnery, followed by EIB, followed by a CTC, etc. I assume if you're not finished withflight school by 30 Sep 20, your commitment is just as long as the Air Force if not a little bit longer. I at least expected a survey or something from the Aviation branch to ask why I was leaving, but again, nothing. It didn't help that the CSA took advantage of his own program by taking private military flight lessons and was awarded his pilots wings while a 4 star. "We probably need to look at it and adjust it a . Discretionary pay intended to be used as needed to address retention problems. This call to action comes amid challenging times, with many civilian airlines running on reduced flight schedules, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 Jon Koziol, the Armys command chief warrant officer to the aviation branch, during a Facebook livestream in June. , I worry that Ive done people a disservice by making the Active Duty pilot career path seem too unattractive. The Palace Chase program exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. Having looked at these options, lets go back to our original thought: If you missed your shot at the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path are you screwed? The service obligation begins on the date an officer attains an aeronautical rating of Army aviator or is removed from attendance, whichever is earlier.. It also left plenty of time to have a normal life and spend time with one's family. The. We need people with your background, dedication and professionalism in the warrant officer cohort. I would have stayed in for another 10+ years if I had the opportunity to revert to Warrant Officer and fly more, but that opportunity doesn't exist. If Stan becomes an engineer in the Air Force, hed probably have to attend some sort of training right after graduating from college. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. You must understand, the Army has an ace in the hole when filling the Warrant Officer aviation pipeline. SUPERSEDED AR 600-8-29, 02/25/2005; SUPERSEDED ARMY DIR 2019-30, 10/01/2019: Footnotes: https://armypubs.army.mil 03-APPLICABLE TO ARNG UNITS: Security Classification : UNCLASSIFIED: Dist Restriction Code : A APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE; DISTRIBUTION IS UNLIMITED: Changes Our young NCOs want to become warrant officers and get out and fly. Typical Army of not addressing the real issues. Yes, life there is fantastic, and its important to get there as quickly as you can because Seniority is Everything. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. reenlistment document. It does have the potential to get him to the airlines more quickly, and hed do all of his military flying in the Guard or Reserve (with Quality of Life far superior to Active Duty, in most cases). By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. Perhaps it's just for RLOs but don't count on that. Sometimes that's necessary, but there's got to be some balance. Aviation Warrant Officers have a 10-year service commitment after completing Warrant Officer Flight School. D. Your email address will not be published. Army Aviation Leaders should. Start date has no impact on this. Paste as plain text instead, Well see that the Active Duty option is still a good deal, that the overall difference isnt so great, and well see why youre better off pursuing either than trying to fulfill a non-pilot commissioning commitment before trying to pursue the Ultimate career path. and our The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. In order to figure out the pros and cons of these different options, we first need to compare the timelines side by side. At least in the early 2000s, there was the ARFORGEN cycle. The B-2 about to get fuel: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/5765915/b-2-and-boom. That will solve our retention problem!" Army Career Satisfaction Program For more information, please see our Its creepy; Im scared Ill go to get out and theyll be like nah man you have 3 more years. How can I show that my BrADSO wasnt taken? Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. Expect bonuses to disappear as well. For anyone interested in becoming a warrant officer, individuals should contact a warrant officer recruiter or visit the Armys Warrant Officer Recruiting website. People tend to forget, aportion of the street2seat WOFT applicants areprior service. My talk with Stan covered all of these, so my next question was, How long were you planning on being involved in military aviation then? I greatly appreciate the responsiveness of this community and the depth of feedback y'all have provided, but I want to be sure that the consensus expressed herein is not just the culmination of a bunch of bad experiences but is actually a systemic issue. COVID has taken care of the airline hiring problem for the next three to five years, making the issueance of an increased ADSO redundant.